Doubting Bro

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Posts by Doubting Bro

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  99

  Latest WT: "Refusing to appear before a JC is like refusing medical treatment"

  by cedars in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the latest october 15th 2012 watchtower (page 13).... "because of what they perceive as defects in the elders, some individuals who engage in serious wrongdoing in the congregation have refused to appear before a committee of elders assigned to help them.

  this could be likened to a patient who loses out on the benefits of a treatment because he does not like something about the doctor.".

  sounds like they're now trying to stigmatize those who try to avoid judical action.

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  Doubting Bro

  To avoid that kind of spirit, we can remember that Jesus is pictured in the Bible as having “in his right hand seven stars.” The “stars” represent the anointed overseers and, by extension, all the overseers in the congregations. Jesus can direct the “stars” in his hand in any way he feels appropriate.

  So, really the Conti lawsuit should have been against Jesus as opposed to the WTS since he's directly directing all overseers in the congregations to cover up child abuse. Good Lord, even the RCC doesn't go that far.

  I am amazed at how delusional JWs are. I used to think that Jesus was directing the elders until I became one and realized that I didn't feel anything different.
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  375

  The Governing Body intends to announce significant changes in academic literature (DOCTRINES) - Brazil

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  dear randall.

  good morning!.

  here is the daniel of brazil (former bethel).. this week at the forum of former jehovah's witnesses had an interesting news!

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  Doubting Bro

  The more I think about this, the more I believe this is much ado over nothing. I remember when they cancelled the book study night a few years ago. The letter was read at a CA which was very unusual. The reaction? The loudest appaluse I've heard in YEARS.

  If they eliminated the D2D, there would be a standing ovation. Most JWs HATE it.

  They make doctrinal changes on a pretty regular basis and no one seems to really care. Their MO is to slip it into a WT study or a QFR then reinforce with CO talks, DC talks, and other WT articles. I just don't see them doing anything doctrinal.

  They're constantly making changes, so while I do think the school will have some changes, I think it will be procedural. They want to explain face to face and then issue a BOE letter with the details once everyone has had the "training".
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  20

  WTS Loses Money By Disfellowshipping Info.

  by mind blown in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello, i found this info interesting from a spanish xjw site and thought it may be of interest to you too?

  i used bing language translator.

  i assume when the post below refers to commissions judicatives, they may be referring to jc?.

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  Doubting Bro

  What the WTS would need to figure out is if the DFing penalty is keeping more people in than its losing. The above is working on the assumption that everyone who is DF'ed believes in the organization and just made a sinful mistake.

  How many JWs are there that only stay in because of family, work or social ties? Or come back just for the same? I understand the cost/benefit analysis that the above poster is explaining but if leadership doesn't realize the issues that are present among the rank & file, then this would be an even bigger mistake than going to voluntary contributions (which I think may have been the biggest blunder they've ever made).

  I guess they don't realize that the apathetic attitude towards FS, lack of contributions, and lack of men that wish to move into local leadership positions are all symptoms of a growing level of disappointment that the end hasn't come yet and an erosion of faith in the org. Look at the growth and even the passion of JWs now compared with the run-up to 1975 (which I'm a little too young to really remember other than being scared out of my mind) or even the 80s and early 90s. It's a shell of its former self, at least in the Western world (and Japan).

  Look at how many people are angry in countries where branches have been closed like Spain. Take away the threat of DF'ing and I could see splinter groups rising quickly. They're already supposed to not DF people who are repentant. Maybe they could redefine repentant to the point that many believers who commit some sort of "sin" would qualify and keep it for apostacy and other things. But, many JWs look at the harsh DF'ing policy as a source of pride and taking that away would further erode confidence.
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  375

  The Governing Body intends to announce significant changes in academic literature (DOCTRINES) - Brazil

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  dear randall.

  good morning!.

  here is the daniel of brazil (former bethel).. this week at the forum of former jehovah's witnesses had an interesting news!

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  Doubting Bro

  Sir82 - LOL, good point. And, yes, I'm happy to report it's been a few years since I was in one of those mind numbing sessions!!! What was I thinking??? They would probably give those stupid "examples" on how to handle and think that would suffice.
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  375

  The Governing Body intends to announce significant changes in academic literature (DOCTRINES) - Brazil

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  dear randall.

  good morning!.

  here is the daniel of brazil (former bethel).. this week at the forum of former jehovah's witnesses had an interesting news!

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  Doubting Bro

  Whatever it is, they have to know that the second they tell the first group of elders, it will be leaked to the world. I agree with those who are saying its more of a procedure change than a real change in doctrine.

  It's been in the works for awhile and my guess is that it's related to something financial since that's almost as important to the GB as power is. Boy, tithing would be a really tough thing to implement. They've railed on other religions for years and years about that. I think it would be easier for them to change doctrine that to get a tithing arrangement in place.

  I can see a change in how they handle pedophile cases being a possibility and one that they would want to explain face to face to elders and answer questions. There are many elder bodies that can't follow simple instructions in BOE letters and the WTS has got to do something to stem the tide of lawsuits.

  I seriously doubt there would be a change in FS although I did catch that comment a few weeks ago in the WT. Still, that's one of the few things non-JWs know about JWs (no holidays and no blood being the other things).

  Whatever the change, I'll bet we find out about it here before the majority of the elders do!!!
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  9

  All Conti docs & Zalkin's out-of-court settlement docs now on watchtowerdocuments.com

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  they are pdf, searchable and downloadable.. http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/cases/zalkin.html.

  http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/cases/conti.html.

  barbara and joe.

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  Doubting Bro

  Thanks guys. Marking for later.
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  188

  About Anonymous they are working on things as we speak!

  by life is to short in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  soldier 77 just posted this about two hours ago but i think his post got lost is the great debate and straw mans that another posters was throwing around.. anyway i hope soldier 77 does not mind if i make a thread from his insight.

  soldier 77 "this seems to have missed in the tangent argument going on: http://pastebin.com/3nitctlf.

  anonymous are needing some more people on the inside to help.

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  Doubting Bro

  I stand corrected on the Swaggart deal. I knew it was tax related but it was so long ago that I had forgotten it was a state sales tax issue. But, the IRS does have the ability to audit religious organizations

  On amicus briefs, I'll bet this wasn't the first time but they'll say they need to fight any challenge to "religious freedom" because they could be next. From a practical standpoint, that makes sense but it certainly doesn't jive with their teachings. But then again, they do a lot of things that they would hammer the rank and file if they did.

  I'll bet that on the WTS appeal of the Conti case, there will be other religious organizations that file amicus briefs since clergy privilege is likely to be a focal point of the appeal.
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  188

  About Anonymous they are working on things as we speak!

  by life is to short in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  soldier 77 just posted this about two hours ago but i think his post got lost is the great debate and straw mans that another posters was throwing around.. anyway i hope soldier 77 does not mind if i make a thread from his insight.

  soldier 77 "this seems to have missed in the tangent argument going on: http://pastebin.com/3nitctlf.

  anonymous are needing some more people on the inside to help.

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  Doubting Bro

  Solider77 - I 100% agree!!
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  188

  About Anonymous they are working on things as we speak!

  by life is to short in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  soldier 77 just posted this about two hours ago but i think his post got lost is the great debate and straw mans that another posters was throwing around.. anyway i hope soldier 77 does not mind if i make a thread from his insight.

  soldier 77 "this seems to have missed in the tangent argument going on: http://pastebin.com/3nitctlf.

  anonymous are needing some more people on the inside to help.

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  Doubting Bro

  King Solomon,

  In the US, the IRS does have the authority to audit a religious organization. Here's the link from the IRS site:

  http://www.irs.gov/charities/churches/article/0,,id=179679,00.html

  This describes the church audit process

  http://www.irs.gov/charities/churches/article/0,,id=181365,00.html

  This describes the reasonable belief definition.

  PS - The whole change from charging for literature in the early 90s was a direct result of the IRS investigation of Jimmy Swaggart's operations who was charging for literature. I believe they ruled that activity to be for-profit and therefore not tax exempt. The WTS changed to a donation arrangement after the Surpreme Court ruled the IRS had the authority to do this.
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  62

  Beards are evil, but do you know why?

  by free2beme in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as a witness, i knew several men who attempted to grow beards.

  when they did, and attended meetings, it did not take long to be talked to by elders and told, "as spiritual men, they should not display an outward form of rebellion.

  " why was this a form of rebellion?

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  Doubting Bro

  I never realized the original reason. Great thread